Welcome to Dog Health Forums. Whether your dog was diagnosed with a health condition you never heard about before or you are looking for a place to share thoughts or obtain support about a certain dog disease with other dog owners, this is the right place. Obviously, this is not the place to ask questions when your dog is seriously ill. If so, please don’t waste your time on a forum, but rather, rush your dog to the vet!

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
MCT in dog's lip. Advice needed please!
10-23-2016, 02:46 PM,
#1
MCT in dog's lip. Advice needed please!
My dog has this growth in his lip that keeps growing and bleeding. I've been told by the vet that it's nothing to worry about unless it keeps growing and bleeding... then is best to remove it. Although most probably return in the same spot.
My dog is 14 years and a half so surgery itself is bit risky because of anesthesia.
I'm trying to find out anyone that has experince with a growth like my dog's and that has treated it successfullywith some alternative medicine. Please help!!
Here is a picture...


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
Reply
10-23-2016, 05:33 PM,
#2
RE: MCT in dog's lip. Advice needed please!
Hello Cindy, did your vet actually diagnose it as a mast cell tumor or are you assuming that's what it is? Did your vet have a sample of the growth sent to a pathologist? What grade is it?

If this is indeed a mast cell tumor, treatment as you know is mostly surgical, the tumor needs to be removed usually with a minimum of 3 centimeter margins. Was your dog not considered a candidate due to underlying health problems or advanced grade/metastasis? Did you get a consult with an oncologist to determine the best course of action?

Has the vet suggested anything like prednisone or anthistamines like benardyl?

i don't have a dog with condition but thought to share with you some links of people dealing with these tumors and some options:

Facebook page for owners of dogs with MCT; https://www.facebook.com/groups/42188128871/

http://www.justanswer.com/dog-health/2wv...nosed.html

http://www.justanswer.com/pet-dog/1m33k-...-cell.html

A great book is The Dog Cancer Survival Guide by Dr. Damian Dressler

here is an excerpt with diet:
http://dogcancerdiet.com/pdf/DogCancerDiet.pdf

Turmeric group on facebook, search in search bar mast cell tumor
https://www.facebook.com/groups/415313751866609

I hope this helps!
Reply
10-24-2016, 02:58 PM,
#3
RE: MCT in dog's lip. Advice needed please!
Thanks so much for your reply.
I'm sorry if I used the term MCT wrongly. I was almost certain that was the term the vet used to refer to it and I thought there could be benign and malign. Didn't realize all can be cancerous.

The vet said it was nothing to worry about. Meaning it was not a cancerous tumor. I assumed they (cause was seen by a couple of vets at the same clinic), based their conclusions on the look of the growth and that was somehow familiar to them.

I've been looking at pictures on the internet of growths in lips and I haven't come across a single one same as my dog so it's really frustrating not being able to help him some other way that is not the operation.

Again...thanks so much for your reply and the links posted!
Reply
10-24-2016, 07:28 PM,
#4
RE: MCT in dog's lip. Advice needed please!
(10-24-2016, 02:58 PM)Cindy S Wrote: Thanks so much for your reply.
I'm sorry if I used the term MCT wrongly. I was almost certain that was the term the vet used to refer to it and I thought there could be benign and malign. Didn't realize all can be cancerous.

The vet said it was nothing to worry about. Meaning it was not a cancerous tumor. I assumed they (cause was seen by a couple of vets at the same clinic), based their conclusions on the look of the growth and that was somehow familiar to them.

I've been looking at pictures on the internet of growths in lips and I haven't come across a single one same as my dog so it's really frustrating not being able to help him some other way that is not the operation.

Again...thanks so much for your reply and the links posted!

Hello, just saw your post and thought to chime in. I am assuming your vet did a fine needle aspirate and sent it out to a pathologist to make sure it's a benign form. Mast cell tumors are known as "the great imitator" for the fact that they can take different forms and can even look innocuous. It's one of those things that cannot be diagnosed or ruled out without having a sample sent out, so looking at just the growth won't cut it when it comes to determining whether a growth not cancerous. That being said, I  wouldn't feel 100 percent safe without a pathology report on it and would be concerned about it growing and bleeding, especially if this is something new. I would follow up with the vet or even get a second option or a consult with a dermatologist, just to be sure.
Reply
10-25-2016, 04:33 PM,
#5
RE: MCT in dog's lip. Advice needed please!
(10-23-2016, 02:46 PM)Cindy S Wrote: My dog has this growth in his lip that keeps growing and bleeding. I've been told by the vet that it's nothing to worry about unless it keeps growing and bleeding... then is best to remove it. Although most probably return in the same spot.
My dog is 14 years and a half so surgery itself is bit risky because of anesthesia.
I'm trying to find out anyone that has experince with a growth like my dog's and that has treated it successfullywith some alternative medicine. Please help!!
Here is a picture...

If it's a MCT, then it needs to come off.  And the only way to tell is to submit a sample to a pathology lab.  Oral MCTs tend to be more aggressive than those on the skin in undergoing metastasis.  Are there any swollen lymph nodes along the jaw line or neck?  If so then it's time for a referral to an oncologist.  If no lymph node involvement, it still might be possible to remove the tumor for a potential cure.

I have 2 geriatric 13+ yr old dogs, and indeed the thought of surgery wouldn't be nice.  However for yours, with the tumor external, they  won't have to put the dog really deep under. 

There are no alternative medicines for cancer, especially canine cancer.  MCT which has undergone metastasis is a difficult canine cancer to treat.  Chemo is partially effective.  Benedryl to counter histamine release (that's what a mast cell does), and Prednisone is given for palliative relief.  High levels of histamine will make the dog feel crummy. Also histamine can lead to stomach ulcers. Say hello to Prilosec to help prevent the ulcers.  Giving the dog 3000-6000 mg of fish oil as a supplement can't hurt. 

Your plan should be to have MCT established with a pathology report.   Surgical removal.  If lymph nodes are involved then find an oncologist, else assume surgery has provided a cure.  Keep monitoring the lymph nodes in the nearby area! 

P.S. I give my Leukemia puppy (70 lbs) 50 mg of Benedryl every night.  A left over from his early congestive days with the cancer.  I figure if nothing else, it might help him get a deeper sleep at night.  And he seems to rather enjoy taking Benedryl inside melted cheese balls . Yummy.  If yours does have MCT confirm an appropriate dosage with your Vet.  It can't hurt.
Reply
10-27-2016, 06:13 PM,
#6
RE: MCT in dog's lip. Advice needed please!
Thanks for your replies!

To answer one of the questions, no...the vet didn't do a fine needle aspirate. They haven't done anything to test the tissue of the growth. I was given the option to sent some.sample of the tissue for analysis once they remove it.

And to answer one of the other questions....yes he has an inflamed lymph node in his neck. I tool him back to the vet the first time I notice it and she said it's because it's fighting what's happening on his lip ...the growth...but that once they cut it then the lymph node will go back to.normal.
And thanks for the suggestion of taking him.to an oncologist but here there are no oncologist vets, so I guess Ithe only thing I can do is had the tissue tested after surgery (next Tuesday) and hope for the best.

I'm thinking that because of the age of my dog (of a breed with lifespan of 14 years) they don't really bother much Sad

Thanks again (dragondawg), for your reply and for the information about the medicine.
Reply
10-28-2016, 11:31 AM,
#7
RE: MCT in dog's lip. Advice needed please!
"yes he has an inflamed lymph node in his neck. I tool him back to the vet the first time I notice it and she said it's because it's fighting what's happening on his lip ...the growth...but that once they cut it then the lymph node will go back to.normal."

That would only be the case if the growth really was an infected abscess, and not a MCT. MCT like numerous canine cancers tend to spread to adjoining lymph nodes. While they have the dog under for the surgery, ask the Vet if they haven't mentioned it already to take a needle aspirate of the swollen lymph node. Or whether it would be worthwhile to remove the entire lymph node(?). In addition the Vet will perform a pre-surgery CBC differential plus Chem panel. Hopefully liver, and kidney enzymes will be normal. High Neutrophil counts are associated with infections. It's not unusual for a dog with cancer to have an infection at the point of diagnosis.

If pathology confirms it's MCT then...

Having the MCT tumor will remove a lot of tumor burden. Each cm3 of a tumor contains roughly 1 billion tumor cells. So removing the tumor will make the dog feel better due to less histamine being released.

The Pathology report should grade the MCT, and give a mitotic index. Based on that you can discuss with the Vet the long range prognosis. Here's an article that discusses canine MCT, its grades, and treatment.

http://www.lbah.com/word/canine/mast-cell-tumor/

If non-aggressive, with a mitotic index below 5, then sit&wait might be a good approach. Or a quick round of radiation at the surgical site(s). If deemed aggressive by the Pathologist you might want to consider Chemo. All things you can discuss with your Vet.

If MCT is confirmed, then it won't hurt to keep the dog loaded up with Benedryl. Again consult with your Vet for the dosage. Give the dog 3000 mg of Fish oil each meal. The Omega-3s have a mild anti-angiogenic effect, slowing down metastasis by a small bit. Also keep the dog on Prilosec, and alternate with Zantac every few weeks. Something I'm currently doing with my Leukemia dog. In my case I have to guard against gastric ulcers caused by Prednisone. In your case, it would be protecting against the histamine in MCT causing ulcers.

GL on the surgery, and hopefully that will provide a positive long range outcome.
Reply
11-05-2016, 04:33 PM,
#8
RE: MCT in dog's lip. Advice needed please!
Thanks for your reply dragondawg and all the advice!
My dog had surgery last Tuesday. I asked the vet if it was advisable to send a sample to the lab and he said that it looked like a melanoma and the fact that the lymph node was swollen it was already a bad sign. He said he thought was best to make him comfortable the remaining time he has left (because is an old dog).

I'm devastated but I agree. The main thing is for him not to suffer.
They took x-rays of his chest to see if it had metastasized to the lungs and the lungs were ok. But hjs lymph node is more swollen now Sad
I have a follow-up appointment next week to discuss what medication the vet can give.

Thanks again for all your great advice.
Reply
11-06-2016, 03:39 PM,
#9
RE: MCT in dog's lip. Advice needed please!
If it's melanoma instead of MCT, then there exists a new vaccine called Oncept which can be given. It stimulates the immune system against a target marker found on Melanoma cells. It's said to have low side effects. Cost may or may not be an issue. The vaccine increases survival time, with it being a race as to how fast the immune system can be stimulated by the vaccine, vs the speed of the metastasis of the cancer. Also another try is to add in Piroxicam, which is a NSAID drug sometimes used for pain. It interferes with the spread of several cancers, by keeping down the inflammatory response. Side effects include ulcers, and a hit on the liver. Sometimes a Cox-2 inhibitor such as Rimadryl is used with the same potential side effects. Thus, Prilosec to reduce stomach acid, and monthly blood liver chem panel readings would be needed. That's the most gentle way to approach Melanoma cancer treatments found in the literature. Discuss with your Vet.

If it turns out to still be MCT, then the Chemo option is Vincristine, and Cytoxin. My former 10 yr old Lymphoma dog was administered Vincristine, at the standard dose of 0.7 mg/m2, and had severe diarrhea. Lowered the dose to 0.5 mg/m2, and no problems. Cytoxin (given orally) never caused any problems. For both drugs I had my dog on anti-nausea, and acid blockers to prevent nausea problems. Most Vets aren't into administering Chemotherapy, and that's why Vet Oncologists were created. The non-chemo or palliative approach for MCT was previously discussed: Benedryl, and Prednisone, along with Prilosec to prevent ulcers.

Let us know which cancer it turns out to be.
Reply
11-07-2016, 06:52 PM,
#10
RE: MCT in dog's lip. Advice needed please!
Thanks for your reply dragondawg and for all the info!

I didn't know it could have different approach depending on what type it was. I thought that because his lymph node is swollen then it was just considered lymphoma and be treated as such.
I feel a bit hopeless since the vet seems to have the aproach as any further tests won't change the outcome and just best to keep him comfortable the remaining time. At the same time I agree. I'm devastated to loose him because he's "my baby" but I just don't want him to suffer.
Like I said, he's old and this is not the only condition he has, he has bad arthritis and can't walk much anymore and also has enlarged prostate... which is probably the reason the vet doesn't like me too much, because 3 years ago when my dog was diagnosed by him with enlarged prostate he gave him an injection of something (can't remember the name right now but it's the standard one they give for that), and he said I have to repeat the injection every few months, maybe every 6 at most, and he mentioned that there are side effects but after using it for years, which wouldn't be the case in my dog since he was old already. I didn't take my dog back because I decided to treat him with herbs instead. Anyway, my guess is that is one of the reasons this vet doesn't like me. 
And I feel like I'm in the limbo because he didn't say much to me the day of the operation. I know he was busy with other surgeries and maybe he was annoyed that I just decided to talk to him as he was passing by through the reception, this was after he had done the surgery on my dog, but I wanted to ask about whether he considered necessary to send to the lab a sample. 
Anyway, the problem is that I don't know if it would be a good idea to change vets now because I may not find other one I feel more comfortable with anyway and the expenses is an issue for me right now, specially after the expensive surgery that just happened.

I was not told what to expect in the next few days (let alone on the first night after the surgery which btw was really bad), so I called the vet on saturday to ask if there was something I should give my dog if the lymph node kept getting bigger (I'm just afraid it can get so swollen that he can't swallow or breathe!), and no one called me back regarding my question. I don't know, maybe I'm being paranoid and he didn't considered it an emergency Sad

Another thing I found out is that my dog was given prednisone a couple of months ago... the vet that checked him then said that one option before surgery would be to put him 10 days in cortisone to see if the growth could shrink, she said it was a long shot but maybe worth the try. I wasn't to convinced since I don't like cortisone but she said that because it was only 10 days it wouldn't be side effects. We did it, it didn't work and there were side effects right away Sad
Then on the day of the surgery I found out that the dose should've been stopped gradually after the 10 days. I was annoyed cause no one told me anything. and now reading a bit more about cancer I came accross with the name of that drug (prednisone), and learned that is given preferably at the end when the cancer has taken over and just to make the dog a bit comfortable the last days. Also read that it given in the end cause the body stops responding to it after a short period of time. Anyway, now I feel like everything has been one mistake after the other and that my dog could've more chance to be ok if they had told me to remove the growth since it was the since of a bean.

Sorry for the rant. I guess I have so many thoughts in my head.

Thanks so much again for replying. I really appreciate you taking the time to write back with all the info you provide. It gives me hope that there are people out there that seem to care more than the people that surround me.
Thanks a lot!
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)