Need help with barking senile dog
Well, this is more on my dad's behalf than on mine. My father has a 16-year-old dog named Mika that developed dementia and mobility problems within the last year. Mika is on two medications right now: Selegiline for dementia and Novifit for cognitive support. Dad swears the Selegiline is helping, but that the Novifit is not (personally, I don't think either one is helping).
I understand that Mika can't help her behavior, but that doesn't make it any less annoying. She whines constantly, and that whining is punctuated by loud barking, and she can keep this up for hours. Mind you, she's not in any pain (the vet confirmed this) – it's just that she wants to move, but her legs don't work like they should anymore and she freaks out (she's not paralyzed, her back legs are just very weak). Sometimes it's an easy fix like getting her a drink of water or some food, but other times, she wants to get up and walk around. This wouldn't be so bad, except she rarely has the rear leg strength to stay standing, so someone has to sit there with her and constantly pick her up off the floor or else she'll lay there moaning and yelping non-stop. Other times, she barks for seemingly no reason at all. Mika also loves to sleep all day and then bark all night. Forcing her to stay awake all day in hopes of her being tired enough to sleep at night doesn't work either because she still finds the energy to not sleep and then bark all night.
Unfortunately, my father is not a patient person at all and he gets very angry with Mika very quickly, especially when she does this perpetual whining crap of hers. Dad will exhaust food and drink possibilities immediately and, now and then, it'll calm Mika down and she'll sleep. Other times, Mika won't want a drink and will continue barking/whining. Due to Dad's impatience and anger, he winds up screaming at and slapping the dog multiple times a day. Mika also has a real knack for barking in intervals at night that wake my father up each time he falls asleep. Now, Dad has zero patience when he's well-rested, but that patience manages to drift into the negative numbers when he's tired. When he gets woke up repeatedly every single night by barking, he doesn't skimp on the smacks.
About eight times out of ten, Mika does calm down once she gets a few slams (and if she's been fed and watered already), but other times she keeps right on truckin' like she's got a point to prove.
Mika's vet refuses to prescribe sedatives, sleeping pills or anxiety pills (I'm thinking it's because her current medications cost more, so it's in the vet's best interests to keep Mika on more expensive meds). The vet also refuses to tell Dad if he can safely give Mika melatonin without it interacting with her other pills. The dog is driving my father and I absolutely insane and I think it's only a matter of time before she barks one time too many and Dad loses it and beats her to death. I live at home and suffer from insomnia, and I also work part-time. When Mika decides to bark from midnight until 4am, takes a nap to recharge and then starts barking again at 6am (with Dad screaming constantly the entire time), you can imagine how much sleep I get.
Dad refuses to put Mika to sleep because he “loves her too much.” I guess he doesn't love her enough to not hit her constantly, though. I don't think re-homing is a realistic option because nobody is going to take such a high-maintenance elderly dog whose monthly pill costs extend into the three-figure range. The shelter would basically be a death sentence because nobody would want her. Dad considered getting her cortisone or steroid shots to potentially improve joint/muscle function, but immediately shot them down when he learned that they'd make her urinate more. He doesn't want to have to possibly clean urine off the floor because he considers pets peeing in the house a mortal sin and there's no doubt in my mind he'd beat the dog to a pulp if she wet the floor.
I don't know what to do with Mika. Both Dad and I know she can't help how she is, but she is extraordinarily frustrating to deal with. I'm patient to a fault and there have been times even I wanted to boot her across the room. There has got to be a better way of dealing with her behavior than hitting her and yelling at her every single day. I don't think I can muzzle her all night because she could overheat from not panting, and a shock collar or citronella collar may not be ideal either because she doesn't know she's being bad. Can anyone offer any suggestions?
It's quite possible the Selegiline is causing most of the symptoms you are seeing:
Side effects due to central nervous system stimulation include restlessness, hyperactivity, repetitive behaviors and salivation
http://www.wedgewoodpetrx.com/learning-c...y-use.html
Selegiline can stimulate neuro transmission, while increasing Dopamine levels, and alertness. There are no known interactions between Selegiline and Melatonin.
https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/...548-0.html
It's also doubtful Melatonin could counter the Selegiline and induce sleep at night in the dog. The Vet prescribing sedatives and other drugs to counter act some of the side effects of Selegiline probably would be a dangerous thing to do.
I'd forget worrying about the senility part, and concentrate on quality of life issues. Certainly getting beat when constantly whining/barking isn't the best quality of life for a geriatric dog. Repeated enough times, and the dog will likely become traumatized, and worse.
If it were my dog, I'd tell the Vet the side effects of the Selegiline is causing too many problems, and can't be continued. Instead I'd be asking for a anti-depressive drug which raises the Serotonin levels be given instead. Preferably administered in the evening so as to promote sleep in the dog at night. Depending on dosage there could be side effects such as stumbling due to being groggy. Maybe not with a low starter dose. Ask your Vet if the OTC drug Meclizine (motion sickness, anti-nausea) can be used with an anti-depressive. This drug does seem to help my post Vestibular Syndrome dog with her balance when walking her in the evening - she suffered some neurological damage to her hind legs due to the syndrome. She is not on any neuro influencing drugs.
Part of the whining could be due to pain when it attempts to get up. I'd also ask for a doggy NSAID in case the dog has developed arthritis. That will probably require once every 3 months chem panels to monitor for any bad side effects (e.g. liver damage). Finally buy a doggy sling you can place under the rear area, and try to take the dog on short walks in the evening. Prevent continued muscle loss over time due to inactivity. Also will serve to tire the dog, allowing it, and everyone to sleep at night.
It's clear the current situation is a bad one. For you, your father, and most importantly the quality of life for a geriatric dog. The current Vet should go along with discontinuing the Selegiline, and trying another approach. If not, then find another Vet. Whatever it takes to get out of the current situation.
I am so sorry you are all going through such a difficult situation! All the slapping and yelling at this dog, will only make matters worse, causing a vicious cycle of stress, whining, and being reprimanded, stress, whining, being reprimanded etc. This dog is need of help, as Dragondawg suggested, I would consult with the vet and inform of the situation. What you are describing at night sounds like "sundowning" where the animal sleeps during the day, but then becomes more restless and agitated at night. This is not a dog misbehaving, it's something not under the dog's control so beating the dog up will do nothing if only make matters worse.
Selegine may work for some dogs and not in others. It's meant to increases dopamine concentrations in the brain, but clinical studies supporting this are lacking. It generally works best when the first signs of dementia are noticed, as it slows down the progression. It is not meant to treat it. Dog dementia unfortunately is a challenge to manage in dogs (and people). Some dog owners have had success giving a benzodiazepine such as alprazolam (Xanax) to reduce the anxious pacing. Other options when it comes to calming aids are melatonin, Zylkene, DAP collars. Many senior dogs benefit from mental stimulation. What happens if instead of scolding, the dog is passed a Kong filled up with some kibble or some of those sprays they sell to stuff them? Will the dog try to work them out and keep busy? If given in a small room, she may not need to get up and repeatedly move around to get the content out. If she still has a good appetite, this can keep her a bit busy for longer than handing her some treats and mental stimulation can also make dogs tired. Just an idea.
Thanks so much for your help! I feel terrible having to share this story because it breaks my heart knowing the poor dog gets smacked for things she can't help, but I couldn't find anyone else's experiences that were similar to this one and I wanted to try and find help as soon as possible.
I think Mika started showing signs of senility for a few months prior to starting on the Selegiline, but she could actually walk when she began going senile. She'd get up at 2am and walk in a circle for two hours or stand in corners and and bark because she didn't have the sense to turn around or back up, but that wasn't all that bad because she could stand just fine and if she wanted to walk around all night long, she didn't let the whole house know. But I had no idea Selegiline could be causing these restless behaviors. I'm not sure Dad would be interested in stopping the Selegiline because he's fully convinced it's working, and I don't think the vet will stop it because that's money they won't make anymore. Plus, I'm the one who suggested Selegiline to Dad in the first place. I wonder if I can try to convince him to just try stopping all her meds for a month and see how she does.
Unfortunately, since Mika has so much trouble getting up and staying up, I don't think any sort of toy will do much to stimulate her mentally. I've had some other folks suggest that her mobility problems could be canine degenerative myelopathy - she does have the symptoms of it, but only her back legs seem to be affected. I did look into doggy slings for Mika, but I noticed that just about all of them have a strap that goes over the lower belly (I considered getting it to help hold her up to her food/water bowls since she won't stand up on her own and she is 40 pounds of dead weight). Both Dad and I have learned the hard way that, if pressure is put on Mika's lower belly, she'll lose control of her bladder.
I don't think she goes for walks anymore - she just gets hauled outside, has her belly rubbed a little until she pees and then comes back inside. Within the last week, her ability to walk and stand even with help seems to have worsened - her back legs don't seem to want to support her weight. Before, she could usually walk at least a little bit, but lately, she just falls right back over the second she gets put on her feet, and she won't properly stand on her back legs, so she's been whining/barking a lot more than normal as a result. Her back legs cross or stick out straight, or she won't put her paws flat on the floor. Her back legs definitely still respond to being touched (even when she was still sane, Mika HATED having her feet touched), she just can't seem to stand on them.
Selegiline may or may not be slowing down the progression of the senility. But has it really helped with the symptoms? She walked around during the night, confused and barking before Selegiline, and continues to do so. The only difference is her real leg strength has decreased over time. Instead of walking around she stays in place whining. Eventually getting a beating for it.
The Vet has made the diagnosis of Cognitive dysfunction syndrome, and Selegiline is the drug of choice to treat it. But if the drug has not addressed or made the clinical symptoms improve, then you should be discussing alternative drug treatments with your Vet to address the symptoms. The Vet should be open to it. If not, find another Vet. Preferably a Specialty Vet, or a nearby University Vet School. If your Dad doesn't want to budge, then you need to have a serious talk with him on the dog's quality of life, and whether it's time for euthanasia.
The more the dog lays around, the weaker it will get. Thus, trying to walk it around a little with the sling might still help. So will addressing any potential pain from undiagnosed arthritis. Dogs are stoic. As far as the pressure causing loss of bladder control, take her out more often during the day, and before bedtime. My current Vestibular Syndrome dog has demonstrated a female dog doesn't have to go into a complete squat to urinate. Mine has neurological damage to the rear legs due to VS. So partial support with a sling might be as good as a belly rub, and less likely to have urine get on the dog. At night my VS dog is a pacer. Getting her to lay down in front of a fan making a lot of white noise seems to help calm her down. That may or may not work with your dog.
In summary: You need to work with your Vet(s) to find a treatment that addresses the clinical symptoms. Address the quality of life for the dog. Maintaining the status quo with Selegiline from your descriptions hasn't accomplished much. GL
Dad spoke to the vet earlier, and now the vet is backpedaling, saying that Mika is in pain after all and we should have her on pain pills, but that she should take the remainder of her other pills before she'll prescribe pain meds (I assume to prevent medication reactions). The vet still won't consider anxiety medication.
Mika also had a seizure this afternoon out of nowhere (definitely a seizure, I've witnessed late pets having them and I know for sure it was one). She seized for about a minute, was sort of disoriented for a few minutes (the post-ictal stage, I believe that's called) and then she was totally fine and hasn't had another one. The vet said that if her seizures last more than 30 minutes at a time, it's a bad thing, and treatment will depend on whether or not she has more of them. WTF, I think an animal would die if it seized that long; other sources I checked on my own suggest that seizures lasting more than 2 minutes are in "bad thing" territory. And yes, I know that seizures can be caused by about a million and a half things ranging from vitamin deficiencies to tumors to diabetes or just plain nothing at all because apparently idiopathic seizures are a thing.
I tried walking Mika around with a makeshift sling (a folded up towel slung under her) and she didn't seem to want to do much walking. She'd stand in place and I wound up basically nudging her around. I realize she may not bolt right up in such a strange arrangement of being slung up like that, but she wouldn't even try to walk and I think the only times she made any progress are when I accidentally had her back legs lifted off the floor and I was pushing her along. Could I just sort of hold her back legs in my hands and work them back and forth? Would that help her legs get stronger at all?
Dad also said he's not going to drive anywhere far away for treatment for Mika. There are a couple of really good and well-known large animal hospitals about an hour or so away, but Dad doesn't want to drive that much (nor will he let me drive him) or pay that much (those people are insanely expensive and refuse to offer payment plans; we're poor, so there's no way either of us could come up with all the money for the bill upfront). Basically, if the local vets don't offer the treatment Mika needs, Mika doesn't get treatment.
I don't think Dad will budge on the subject of euthanasia unless it's very obvious that Mika is suffering or won't recover. He never listens to me because he thinks I'm a complete idiot and that he's always right (he told me how horrible I was for seeking out advanced treatment for my old dog). So I can only hope that Mika's not suffering too much in her current state aside from the occasional smacks. Perhaps the pain pills will work a bit, but Mika's got two more weeks to go on her other pills before switching.
"but that she should take the remainder of her other pills before she'll prescribe pain meds (I assume to prevent medication reactions)"
There are no known interactions with Selegiline, and doggy NSAIDs for pain. And yes seizures have been reported with Selegiline. Yes, specialty hospitals, and practices are expensive, and want payment upon service. Which in your case would include at least Xrays, and a Chem-blood panel.
Doggy NSAIDs such as Rimadryl can hit the liver. I'll be placing my one dog on them, and intend to have a Chem panel run every 3 months. Also intent to have her on Prilosec to guard against stomach irritations caused by NSAIDs.
"The vet said that if her seizures last more than 30 minutes at a time"
Most likely she was referring to "Cluster Seizures" with several seizures occurring over 30 mins or more of time.
"I tried walking Mika around with a makeshift sling (a folded up towel slung under her) and she didn't seem to want to do much walking. "
The best way I found to get my VS dog to walk as she was recovering from her first attack was to attach a lead to her collar, and then use a towel or preferably a strap support (my Vet kindly loaned me) so I could hold it standing straight up. Gently pull forward with the leash, while supporting the rear legs. Trying to maintain her center of gravity. She would put weight on her rear paws. Even now after laying for hrs and being stiff I use the same technique to get her up/down the stairs inside the house. Your dog might not want to do much walking due to pain.
" Perhaps the pain pills will work a bit, but Mika's got two more weeks to go on her other pills before switching. "
Finishing the Selegiline which may or may not be helping, and/or causing side effects, and not treating the potential pain with doggy NSAIDs doesn't make sense. There are other canine pain treatments involving drugs beyond the NSAIDs which could interact with Selegiline. Unless the Vet is going to bypass the front line NSAIDs to go to other classes of drugs used to treat canine pain... it's a mystery. Ask the Vet why the Selegiline must be finished before trying a NSAID for pain? What drug she intends to prescribe to treat the pain? Or try another Vet practice in your area.
Thank you for all your suggestions, everyone. I appreciate you all taking time to read my comments and offering me advice. I went somewhere for the weekend because I kind of needed a break from both my father and Mika and apparently Mika's condition got worse very quickly and had to be put to sleep yesterday. I wasn't there to see any of it, but I guess Mika barked even more than usual all night Saturday and then Dad found her splayed across the floor, unable to move at all and howling.
The best part is the vet said after euthanasia that seizures in elderly pets are usually a sign of impending death, but that she didn't want to tell my father that when he called about the seizure because he wasn't ready to hear yet that Mika was on her way out. That's a bunch of crap. If my pet is dying, I want to know about it rather than holding out thinking there might be some hope they'll be alright. WTF kinds of vets are these?! I wonder how many other people they lie to about dying pets.
I'm only a little upset by this news because Mika was pretty darn old for a dog and didn't exactly have the best quality of life between her health and my father's treatment of her. I'm just sorry she spent the last couple months of her life getting slapped every single day when she might have already been in pain. I told her I loved her before I left for the weekend, so even though I didn't know it would be the last time I could say it to her, I don't feel like I need any kind of closure.
I am so sorry for your loss, sounds like things went downhill quickly. Try to cherish the good memories you had with her.
I honestly don't even know what made her go downhill so fast, or if the seizure had anything at all to do with it. I know it could have been so many possible things: organ failure, cancer, perhaps a stroke or an aneurysm. I don't think it was just her age since I don't think being plain too old would have resulted in such a stressful, sudden death. I know it wasn't any sort of toxin because Mika couldn't even get up, let alone get herself into mischief. Another of my late dogs passed in a similar manner - was fine in the morning and couldn't hold her head up 12 hours later.
At the risk of sounding cruel, I think I started finding myself becoming emotionally distant from Mika when she began really going senile and acting completely different. I had similar feelings when my grandfather developed dementia - it's not that I didn't stop loving them, but the person/dog they once were was gone and never coming back. It was sort of like going through a miniature period of mourning both times. I will always look back fondly on my memories of Mika from when she was healthier.
She was kind of an odd dog, mostly because she never seemed to want to play. Never wanted to fetch or chew on anything (toys or otherwise) or chase things. She was always content to snuggle on her pillow with a rawhide or with me, and she was the biggest baby of a dog I ever met. She'd bark if you petted her wrong or picked her up - not in a vicious or painful way, but just like she was annoyed for half a second. So of course I went out of my way to pet her "wrong" because her reaction was so funny. She was smart too - she used to know how to do a bunch of tricks, but I kind of slacked on having her do them and basically every single trick turned into her flopping on her side like a whale and then getting up expectantly for a treat.
Mika was a funny dog, a sweet dog and was never any trouble. I think I only ever got mad at her twice, and both times were when I was in a bad mood (read: exhausted) and not really from anything she ever did. I have plenty of memories of her as well as photos, and I almost feel bad for not being sadder over her passing. It's not that I don't miss her, but I feel like she had at least a somewhat okay and long life (Dad wasn't nice to her all the time, but I did my best to make up for it) and I'm happy I could share my life with her for so long. I'm sad, don't get me wrong. But I'm not a sobbing mess because I know she's no longer suffering and we had a lot of fun together.